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June 10, 1999 |
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Letters to the editorLetters to the editor should be sent to letters@lwn.net. Preference will be given to letters which are short, to the point, and well written. If you want your email address "anti-spammed" in some way please be sure to let us know. We do not have a policy against anonymous letters, but we will be reluctant to include them. | |
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:41:49 -0400 From: William Hoffman <whoffman@erols.com> To: letters@lwn.net Subject: This is the lynchpin in your enumeration of the challenges facing the RedHat IPO and the Linux community as a whole: "The GNU General Public License (GPL) might not be enforceable. This concern arises mostly because the GPL has never been tested in court." It's a coin-flip which way a conservative Supreme Court would go on the GPL. On the one hand, numerous powerful vested interests (MS only the first and most visible among them) would like to be freed from this turbulent priest. On the other hand, capital thrives on innovation that leads to lower costs and higher profits, and big software users are jazzed about Linux's MCI potential against Microsoft's obnoxious Ma Bell status. Either way, though, the game will be decided only partly in the marketplace. It may take years to settle the issue. But it is the Supreme Court, I believe, that will deal the last card. Linux supporters are not helpless in this. The more hardware and software vendors who actively (i.e., $$$) support GPL alternatives, the harder it will be for the court to uproot them. All protestations of obiesance to constitutional principle and the beauties of equal justice aside, when the day of decision arrives the Supreme Court almost always decides in favor of _net profit_. The longer GPL proponents can stall that day, the better the odds are in their favor. Yet I fear that in the rush to recruit corporate sponsors and formulate standards that will allow newbies like me to play Half Life on their laptops, the importance of this somewhat abstract yet absolutely crucial legal underpinning may be lost. And we will have to wait another generation before a similarly promising new model of collaborative property relations develops to challenge the hitherto dominant form, which appears increasingly likely ultimately to lead only to monopoly, ruin and decay. William Hoffman whoffman@erols.com | ||
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 09:07:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Helge Kreutzmann <kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de> To: letters@lwn.net Subject: RH 6.0 pricing Dear Editor ! One point you missed in your editorial of the June 3rd issue regarding RH's pricing are the international customers. Until 5.2 RH was priced simmilar to e.g. SuSE, making it an alternative choice. Since online time is expensive (at least here in Germany) many bought the CD set as downloading is not a real option. RH's new strategy hinders its market acceptance: The $80 set has no extra value, as long distance calles into the US are too expensive as well (and would have to be done in inconvenient times as were are several hours off US time zones); having to order directly from RH the $40 set is also inconvenient (because of the exchange, you probably need a credit card etc.). The conclusion can only be for non-US-customers: reconsider using RH. While Alpha users (like me) now have serveral choices I do feel sorry for the sparc users. My $0.02 worth Regards Helge Kreutzmann Vote against spam: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ Is your penguin 64 bit ? --> http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/~helgek Helge.Kreutzmann@stud.uni-hannover.de kreutzm@itp.uni-hannover.de | ||
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 07:17:32 -0600 From: Jeffery Cann <jccann@home.com> To: letters@lwn.net Subject: The future of Red Hat? Read on Lwn in 1999: The end result is that consumers of the system will not be all that put out. Even $80 is not a huge price to pay for a quality operating system. Read on Lwn in 2000: The end result is that consumers of the system will not be all that put out. Even $160 is not a huge price to pay for a quality operating system. Read on Lwn in 2001: The end result is that consumers of the system will not be all that put out. Even $320 is not a huge price to pay for a quality operating system. Read on Lwn in 2002: The end result is that consumers of the system will not be all that put out. Even $640 is not a huge price to pay for a quality operating system. I find it interesting that the opinion is that "... consumers of the system will not be all that put out." I'm put out. I'll pay $80 for Red Hat's (buggy) distribution when hell freezes over. Jeffery Cann jccann@home.com | ||
From: Decklin Foster <decklin@home.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:06:12 -0400 To: letters@lwn.net Subject: Red Hat Core is still GPLed > Resellers of Linux, however, have more to worry about. Companies > like the Linux Mall, Linux System Labs and others, which certainly > played a role in making Red Hat the successful company that it is, > are now finding themselves squeezed on Red Hat's expensive > distribution. Evidently Red Hat's reseller price is so high that a > number of these companies are selling it at a loss. Simultaneously > they are finding themselves undercut by Red Hat itself, which is > offering a cheaper version that they can not sell. What's the point? Red Hat is GPLed, as it always has been -- there's no way that Red Hat can keep people from copying/selling their distribution unless they make everything they contributed proprietary (not likely). A cursory scan of LSL's site shows that they are still selling the GPL cd (I switched to FTPing Debian over my cable modem a while ago, so I haven't really been keeping up) -- and the pre-order is $0.00. While I don't use Red Hat myself, I don't like to see people feeding the big fear that they're going to be the new Microsoft or something (I have never worried about this, and anyone who does out to try out Debian for a minute on a spare machine.) Please try to be a little more objective. | ||
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 10:51:57 +0300 (GMT) From: Roberto Alsina <ralsina@unl.edu.ar> To: editor@lwn.net Subject: Re: KDE wars I just can't believe that Nathan Myers is suggesting that the solution for a theoretical problem (namespace pollution by Qt's signal/slot/emits) is to make it a practical problem. I mean: currently there is no problem with that, since it does not collide with anything, and he proposes to actually *make* it collide. He is proposing to make the possible problems happen! That's so weird I can't even start to understand it. ("\''/").__..-''"`-. . Roberto Alsina `9_ 9 ) `-. ( ).`-._.`) ralsina@unl.edu.ar (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._`. " -.-' Centro de Telematica _..`-'_..-_/ /-'_.' Universidad Nacional del Litoral (l)-'' ((i).' ((!.' Santa Fe - Argentina KDE Developer (MFCH) An opinion you can't give reasons for is not an opinion worth having (I) | ||
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:58:26 +0100 From: Derek <derek at fortstar dot demon dot co dot uk> To: letters@lwn.net Subject: KDE Wars I was more than a little surprised by the attitude taken by Nathan Myers in his letter to last week's LWN where he criticises Troll Tech for it's use of non standard directives in it's C++ Qt library. Firstly, this is a Troll Tech/Qt issue, not a KDE one. The KDE team are users of Troll Tech's product, and while they have an indirect say in what goes into it, they are not really in a position to start redefining Troll Tech's macros in the KDE source. Such action is bound to break things in both existing and future releases of code. Pointing the finger at the KDE developers and crying "arrogance" is unfair. While I agree that Troll Tech could have chosen less contentious names for their macros, anybody who writes library or header code is, by definition, claiming a part of the namespace. Troll Tech's claim to the 'emit' macro is no less valid than, as a random example, 'GTK_TOOLBAR_TEXT'. If I want to use that string in one of my programs, I can't, but that's hardly a major problem. Besides that, Troll Tech aren't claiming to have extended C++. The 'emit' macro, for example, is defined as empty. It's just a cue for the person reading the program, or, in some cases, the Meta Object Compiler which Qt uses as a compilation tool. My real problem with Nathan's argument is his assertion that other software developers should deliberately attempt to use these macro's names in other contexts in order to hobble the ability of users to use KDE and other Qt related software. What sort of attitude is that to adopt in the free software community? Flame wars about which products are better, and which is the way forward are all very well, but this sort of thing is just plain nasty. One thing which the KDE/GNOME war has shown is that the open source community can be an ungrateful lot. Troll Tech have donated a huge amount of work to us, but because they are trying to make a living out of their product as well, they get massive amounts of grief from those in ivory towers. Qt-2.0 is due out soon, and since a lot of work is being done on rewriting Qt based software for it, this might be a good opportunity in order to rename those macros to something a little less contentious. Anyone who feels strongly enough about the issue should make their feelings felt to Troll Tech, who might be responsive if their header files are causing genuine problems. In the meantime, deliberately trying to sabotage any software which depends on the Qt library is the sort of action which takes open source software backwards in leaps and bounds. Derek Fountain Southampton, England | ||
Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 23:55:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Soudan <wes0472@osfmail.isc.rit.edu> Subject: A new KDE war? To: editor@lwn.net, ncm@cantrip.org I read Nathan Myers's short note on "KDE Wars" as appeared in the June 3, 1999 edition of Linux Weekly News. Normally I am fairly laid back about the KDE vs. GNOME situation, however, this article in particular caught my eye right away. Is the author trying to start a new war here? >From his note: > The solution remaining for the rest of us is to assert our right to > these names by using them freely, in header files of other > libraries, as formal argument names, struct member names, > member-function names, and as local variables in inline functions: > inline int do_stuff(int signals) { int slots; ... > We can also insert "#undef signals", etc., directives. Eventually, > as they find it increasingly difficult to build programs that rely > on useful non-KDE libraries, the KDE developers will be forced to > give up their claimed monopoly on those names, and begin to act as > responsible members of the cooperative software development > community. While the author may have a valid point, deliberately writing code with the pointed purpose of breaking Qt and KDE seems to be the wrong way to go about this issue. As a Qt programmer myself, I would gladly argue Qt's signal/slot mechanism is so well integrated into the language that it is worth losing three relatively obscure keywords. Futhermore, there are many other toolkits and applications that claim more than three generic macro keywords. When was the last time the author browsed /usr/X11R6/include/X.h? Would he code a library with the express purpose of breaking X applications by including: inline int DoStuff(bool Above) { int CurrentTime; ... I would think not, if he desired his library to be useful. Finally, would you really think of yourself as a "responsible member of the cooperative software development community" writing this type of code? If yes, please take on the other problem toolkits in addition to Qt. Bill Soudan wes0472@rit.edu | ||
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:33:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Myers <ncm@best.com> To: wes0472@osfmail.isc.rit.edu Subject: Re: A new KDE war? Bill Soudan <wes0472@rit.edu> wrote: > I read Nathan Myers's short note on "KDE Wars" as appeared in the > June 3, 1999 edition of Linux Weekly News. ... Is the author trying > to start a new war here? No. I would like nothing better than for Qt or KDE to fix their broken headers. > ... When was the last time the author browsed /usr/X11R6/include/X.h? The macros defined in X.h are a problem, but they are an old and well-known problem. The presence of old problems does not excuse introducing new ones. Rather, we should know better, given the example. The correct solution, as for all problems of this nature, is to rename the macros according to the industry-wide convention: all upper-case, and scoped by a library-identifying prefix. If this has been done in the first place, as it is done routinely in well-behaved libraries, this exchange would not be necessary. If Troll Tech and KDE refuse to fix their own problems, they can expect continuing conflict. Using the names "emits", "signals", and "slots" in other libraries (e.g. the Linux kernel headers!) helps preserve our right to use those names, just as exercising our constitutional rights helps to preserve our freedom. Nathan Myers ncm@cantrip.org | ||
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